Guardrails: How To Protect The Vision For Your Life

0:04Welcome to Brave and Big, where we talk about living a Brave and Big Life. I'm Joey Odom, husband to Kristen, dad to Harrison Indiana, speaker, former tech co-founder and author.

0:13I'm Chris Hart, husband to Molly, dad to Blakely, Cooper, Landry, and my son Brave. I'm the CEO and founder of the Brave Group and Brave Performance Agent. Joey and I have been having these talks for 25 years, and we're better for it. We believe the same will be true for you. Enjoy this episode. Be brave and live big. Hi now, it's go time. Brave and big listeners, we love you. We appreciate you. This is a joy. Every single time we we get in the booth, it's a whole lot of fun. We've got a great one for you today. Just a heads up, Joey Odom is the cheer coordinator for his daughter's volleyball team. That's right. And he is really good at it. So I think you're gonna feel some of that juice today. Uh, it's amazing what he's done for his daughter's team. Uh, I think they're the best in the country because based on his cheer. So I just need you to be ready for Joey today because he's on one.

1:09Well, Hard, I got we, we, we, we had a tough match against Farragut last night, got the dub, and I got kind of that like day after rasp. So I'm I'm feeling like voice-wise, I don't know the words that will come out of my mouth, but I hope the timber, I hope you really feel the timber today with that day after rasp.

1:26Bring the timber is the theme for the episode.

1:30That's right. Gosh. We had some um we had some some letters, um, handwritten letters that we got in, and they had some questions about you, Mr. Hart. The the specific question, we're going back to wartime part one. If you listen to Wartime, if you've not, A, what's wrong? To B, um, please go back and listen to it. It's it's super good. But there was a question, and the question was mainly like at 46 years old, did Chris get braces? Because there was, or were you wearing your night guard or a retainer? Buddy, you you had it was some kind of list. No, by the way, I even did, I even did a Mike Tyson impression, and a buddy text and he goes, I think, I think Chrith Harr should have done that Mike Tyson impression. Buddy, can can we explain what happened with your little lisp?

2:29I'd love to say at 46, I just got one. Okay, that how fun would that be? Like some people like I wish I wish in my mid 40s I could get a little taller, right? Adult, adult onset lisp, grow some hair or something, but but apparently for one episode, I got a lisp. And uh Joey is super smart. I actually didn't pick up on it, I'm just the one lisping the whole time, apparently. And my good friend never thought we should correct that, we should comment on it. You're the one listening, Joey. I mean, then the people just had to endure it the entire time. Apparently, we had a bit of a mic issue, issue, which uh created a lisp. I had a couple people genuinely concerned come up to me at church, and it was like they were watching my mouth move to see if I had just developed one overnight and they wanted to see it in person. So it's pretty great what's come from it. You guys that that have come back and are like, I, you know, maybe he just has a lisp and I'll just have to endure it. I appreciate that. You guys that were concerned, thank you. I mean, the the outpouring of love and concern is amazing, but what a community. And and listen, you be the judge. I don't think it's an actual lisp. I do think we've corrected the mic. I've got a new mic, so we'll see here. But yeah, thank you, Joey, for bringing it up.

3:52Chris, there are a few there. I like to think, and and this is you always bring the juice, and then there's a topic that's juicy. And so I think what we're gonna, what in my mind, the way I even literally have written on my notes here for this episode today, I think we got some juicy juice. Let's go.

4:10The simple maybe title today would be big vision equals big guardrails. Purpose requires guardrails. There has to be restraint with our vision. And I like that there's a little bit of a polarizing effect to that statement, right? Like, let's dream big, let's get wild, man. Vision is imagination and wisdom. We've talked about that a little bit, and and that's a powerful combo. And so it's really cool. I'm gonna dive right into Proverbs 29:18. This is a concept, and and this kind of lays the foundation for all of this. And just so you know, I want to reiterate us having vision for our life, and then we're also gonna get real practical with the guardrails that we think should be in place, and there can be a variety here, but I think you'll find this productive. You might want to jot some things down in this episode, but that verse 2918 says, where there's no vision, like if you don't have it, people cast off restraint. But he that keeps the law, happy is he. So, what we're gonna do is is flip this around a little bit because we often think vision is about only where we're going. Okay, but the reality is this proverb is showing us d something different. It also determines what we're willing to say no to along the way. It is absolutely direction. Okay, I want you to have a vision for your life and get clear on direction. And in that process, let's get real clear on our no. I heard I had a guy one time and and pardon my French, but he goes, like, hey, if it's if it's not a hell yes, it's a hell no. Right? And just kind of being real clear like that, like so definitive about our yes, about our vision, so that it's so obvious what we say no to. I've got a guy that works with politicians, a coaching client, does a great job. But it was interesting, we've got a new governor coming in. I won't get into details, but literally, we just defined very recently, man, if he's gonna engage with the new governor, that's a fun idea. It's sexy to say, but what actually makes it a win? What would he say no to in that arrangement? Right? He's gonna put some guardrails on the specifics of what he will do and what he's great at, and then what he should not do. What would actually be a distraction? What would take away some of the energy and effort? Okay, so if we're gonna reverse engineer this, I think it's really powerful to look at it and say, okay, without vision, if you don't have clear vision for your life, then life becomes responsive instead of proactive. Okay, like I said, we're just getting right into it. I want you thinking like this. If you don't have vision right now, then we start reacting to opportunities, emotions, and circumstances instead of being proactive towards them because we know where we're going and we know what we're saying yes to. And the other side of it is we start comparing ourselves to everyone around us. If I'm clear on my vision, then I'm excited about where I'm going and excited about where you're going. I don't have to wonder if I should change my lane and dive into what you're doing because what you're doing appears to be fun and exciting. I can be clear on mine, even if I'm in the grind of my vision, I can be very confident in it and stay away from comparison. And so the the reality is if we don't have vision, we cast off restraint. And I'll give you an illustration of this and then Joey, start chiming in here. But uh just just that had a great friend, great athlete, excited about life, and was doing well and got injured. And you've kind of heard this story across a lot of different industries, but because of the injury, didn't get the scholarship he was expecting, and now all of a sudden had no vision. That that athletic career was the only vision that he had. And once that went away, it's like, well, why would I train? Why would I protect my body? Why would I have certain standards? And it was shocking to see what took place and unfolded. That lack of vision led to a lack of restraint, and all of a sudden there's this downhill spiral. So for us, who we're going to be, man, if you want to be a person that's taking ground and living brave and being big and all that stuff, man, we've got to say, okay, I have a vision. And there's a whole process to that that we talk about as well, calling out to God and getting those kind of answers and getting direction. But but for a person that has some vision, man, now we're gonna specifically put some things in place so that we can we can say, okay, man, this is where I'm headed. It's okay that some things change. It's it's okay that things are a little bit different than I initially set out for. That's part of life. But I have guardrails in place so that the guardrail is powerful because if I if I go flying off and hit a guardrail, bumps up the paint a little bit. Yeah. And I'm still back in the lane. No guardrail, we're flying in the ditch. So so, Joey, as we're kind of presenting this and starting to unpack it violently, tell me, tell me what's kind of hitting you and and where we go.

9:20I I'd go back to that Proverbs 29, 18. The that the the first part of that is the one that that a lot of us probably have heard, where there's no vision, the people cast off restraint. Or in other words, that whether we're where there's no vision, the people perish. But man, that second part of the verse is really interesting. And I don't want to I don't want to breeze over it too much, but it says that he that keeps the law happy is he. So for those of you like me who are not Old Testament scholars in any way, even though I did take Dr. Vance's course at Oral Roberts University, which is a good idea. Great, great, great, uh, great class. What he's what it says there, he that keeps the law happy is he. So let's think about that real quick. It's easy to think like, oh, yeah, keep the law. The law, hold on. The law was a pretty detailed, virtually unachievable thing to do. It was basically impossible to keep the law because it was so restrictive. They had laws so you could keep the laws. Like it was like laws on stack on you know, stack on laws, on laws, on laws. And the goal of that, the reason they had the law was so that they could love the Lord their God with all their heart, soul, mind, and strength. So it was because, to your point, because the vision was so big, because man, I want to love the Lord my God with all my heart, soul, mind, and strength. Because of that, I got to do a bunch of stuff to make sure that vision stays intact. So, but then the interesting part of that, this with the it's almost like the diametric opposition to it here is that second part, but it says that the one who keeps the law happy is he. That sounds really restrictive to have to keep all the law, but they're saying when you keep the law, you will then be able to love the Lord your God, and as a result, you're gonna be happy. So, so the goal for anybody here is this is like if you're if your restraint seems a little bit restraining, then you you might be doing it right. I'll just I'll tell you, you might be you might if you're going to an extreme to protect a huge vision, that might mean that you're doing the right thing. And you got to make sure. Now, the the problem in this, what that they ended up doing, the objective for the Israelites became keeping the law and not loving the Lord. So it gets like you get like that's where you kind of get that legalism thing. But if if your your restraints must be in service to your vision, and if it feels restrictive, that's because it's pointing you towards something greater, and the end result is you being happy in pursuing that vision using the restraints that you put around yourself.

12:00Man, that's good. Well, think about the progression here vision, and then we create restraint for the vision, and then in that restraint is obedience, and from obedience comes blessing.

12:12Yeah, yeah, that's good.

12:14So it's amazing how it lays out, and it let's not get caught up in the like if I'm telling my kid, like, hey, you're you're 14, you shouldn't drink alcohol. There's a restraint there to protect them. And then if they'll obey that restraint, man, there's gonna be a blessing in their life. The protective side of it, and then also just the blessing that comes from obedience, right? Man, you're eight, you're 12 years old, it's not time to drive yet. Yes, there's a restraint there, and I'm protecting them. That doesn't mean that they'll never drive, right? They're they're gonna have that opportunity, but they will be ready to walk in the opportunity because they've lived a life of obedience.

12:49Well, this is where it gets kind of interesting too, is that like you just said there, like they'll drive someday. So what I think when we think about when we think about guardrails, we very often think about placing guardrails around inherently destructive things. And we're gonna get into some of those things. We're gonna talk about those later. But that Chris, I'd I I have a a thought here and I'd love for to get your take on it, is that I think that very often our guardrails are around things that are not inherently bad, that may actually be good. And I'm thinking about kind of misplacement. And you you've talked about that a little bit in the past, but misplaced priorities and mistimed activities. So misplacement and mistiming. So, so think about um, and I'll use his name, I don't think he'll care. Heath Wilson talks about this a bunch, my old business partner. He talks about marathon training. And man, what a what a great thing to do is train for a marathon. It's awesome. It's an Iron Man, he's a crazy good athlete. And he also did it right in the middle of what we would call wartime. His kids are young, so all of a sudden he leaves on a Saturday to go on a 50-mile bike ride or something like that, and he's away from his family for half the day. And the the strain that it put on his marriage in the pursuit of a good thing, that was just misplaced and mistimed. I mean, you you could go, you could go to the extreme and create kind of silly examples. Hey, if I if I am reading my Bible, I think most would consider that a really good thing. But if I'm if I'm sitting there on a date night with Kristen reading my Bible instead of talking to her, that's just a mistimed thing that I'm doing. So can you talk for just a second about this idea of your guardrails not necessarily being around destructive things, but also placing them around maybe good things in the service of that larger vision.

14:45Man, I think you're you're nailing this idea here. It makes me think about a strength out of balance becomes a weakness.

14:52Come on, son.

14:53Okay, thank you. The the reality though is we're talking about good stuff. I like it's kind of that example. This guy's gonna work with the governor. That's a good thing. Unless what he's working with him on is out of his lane and he has no idea what he's talking about.

15:07Yeah.

15:08Right? I love the idea. Like, I I want to I want to be a good see, we we have all these categories, right? Faith, family, fun, fitness, finances, friends. All are good unless to your point we're doing them at the wrong time or inappropriately.

15:22Yeah.

15:22Right? It's like, hey, I'm I'm at my kid's game. I want to focus on that. Let me be a good sideline dad. I we're not all volleyball cheerleaders like you are, Joey, but we we can be good dads. You know what I'm saying? I'm I'm convicted. I'm gonna start some cheers for competitive soccer. Yeah, I don't know anything. I wouldn't even know how to cheer. I still don't understand the game. Offsides is crazy, right? But so but if that's where I'm at, man, be there. What's the guardrail? Is business good? Yes. But if I'm taking that business call during the game, that's that's misplaced. That's right. So, what's the guardrail for the soccer game? What's the guardrail for date night? I love that one. Man, when I'm at the gym, be at the gym. So a lot of this is like, what's the we we also get to kind of have some micro vision in these different categories? Yes, man. What is the vision for your fitness? Great. Let's protect that. Let's have some restraint and not get rid. And even to that point, you know, you've got people that are like, listen, I need to lose 30 pounds this month. That's not healthy. So what's the restraint on the vision of getting fit?

16:28Man, that's great. The restraint on the restraint.

16:31That's it. That's uh there's restraint in you being physically right and appropriate. I love that. Yeah, let's do it right. You and I have these kind of conversations a lot. You know, like but before this episode started, we were comparing just the busyness of this season. Which is a it's a good thing in the sense that most of it are things that we've prayed for. There are opportunities we're navigating. It's in alignment with our vision. But you and I are having healthy conversations about what to say yes to, what to say no to, and creating intentional restraint so that we can have the the appropriate focus where it's actually supposed to be.

17:10Yeah. It's and this is this goes back to, and this is funny. Everything we'll ever talk about on this podcast is all going to be tied together. And the value of what we just said, the question I was going to ask that I answered in my head was how do you know if you if you have an inappropriate restraint? How if you how do you know when to restrain your restraints? All that stuff. And I think the answer is what you just said is you just you have a community and you talk about it. If you if you said, if you said, hey, I'm gonna, I'm gosh, I'm gonna lose 30 pounds in in September, I'd be like, bro, that's a terrible idea. What are you talking about? I mean, listen, we we call it you you do it with you asked me about a year ago or so, like, hey, how's your tithe? You you staying faithful in the tithe? Man, what a great check for me to go take a deep inspection. I said to you a few weeks ago, Chris, I don't think you're sleeping enough. It's it's just it's uh these are little tiny things, but why do I want you to sleep more? Because I want you to have good heart health so you can be effective in everything you do and you can live a long time. That's it. It's it's for it's it's very basic. And so I think having these types of conversations, and I we we love the the small talk and banter. I think that's a good part of a relationship, but it also being willing to go to another level of depth. Calling, I I call friends all the time. Hey, give me your perspective on this. I love that. So I think that I think one thing here, and it'll get you, I think it'll probably get you. It sounds like it may get you into comparison. I probably think it probably even helps you out of comparison as well. Because what will happen then is you'll naturally in community start to hear questions that other people have, or maybe insecurities that other people have, and you think, oh, okay, I see. So we all have our own little thing. They harp may be doing this great, but he may need a little sharpening here, or whatever it is. I think that community begins to dispel some of the comparison that we might naturally feel because comparison, I believe, really grows in isolation.

19:09Yeah. Well, let's let it tie into where we go next, which is vision has to be visible.

19:15Yeah.

19:16And if we're communicating with the right people, that keeps it visible, right? Like I I need the vision of the heart family to be visible to the heart family. Right. I need I need I need Landry and Brave thinking, yeah, this is this is on par with where we're going. Our our culture's clear, our vision's clear. And the great thing there is then if it is visible, it's very obvious if we as a team or me as an individual are off track.

19:48Yeah.

19:49And and I love that. So when when there's clear vision, people can thrive. Excitement increases, sacrifice makes sense. Of course, I'll put a guardrail in place. I know where I'm headed, I know what's worth it. Jesus was so clear, man. For the joy set before him, he endured the cross. Okay. He had a vision of the why behind the cross. People can become inspired, decisions get easier. You have something worth protecting, and you get excited about blessing other people as a result of your vision being fulfilled.

20:26Yeah.

20:26Right? So that's what that's what's on the other side of this. That's why it's so critical that it's clear. And again, this is leading to we're gonna spend some time on the guardrails themselves, but I I think it's important to lay a little bit of this groundwork of some of the why behind the vision. And so, one question I would ask anybody listening is can the people closest to you articulate where you're going? And then I want you to to think about that a little bit. I mean, is it clear? And not just I I don't I don't need all your friends to know your your KPIs for the business necessarily, but I do want them to know where you're going. Right? I mean, is your is your spouse, are you guys clear on where you're going right now? Because there's a lot of doing, there's a lot of happening. You know, I mean, if it's back to school season, golly, it how how many how many tasks go into every day of getting kids going again? The holiday season, it is wild, the number of things to do, right? It it works in every season. Summer, love summer, busy as heck. You know what I'm saying? So all of that's there, but in the midst of doing everything, man, are we clear on where we're going or are we just overwhelmed with what we're doing? Speak to that a little bit, would you, Joey?

21:40Well, it it it brings up a question for me of somebody listening and kind of putting legs on this, because I I think that all of us, anybody who has friendships or uh family or whatever it is, you have a culture. You in your home, you have a culture, no matter whether you've stated it or not. And so the question, and again, the the my favorite, my favorite, I'll probably say this a hundred times on this podcast, my favorite definition of culture, culture, it's the taken for granted assumptions about the way a group operates. It's the stuff you don't even think about. These are just the things you naturally do. Your flow is if if your kids wake up on Sunday mornings and they just start putting their church clothes on, like you get a culture that says, like, oh yeah, of course we're we're going. So, so the question I have for that is culture will naturally form. And so when you say, Well, can people look at you and know what your vision is? Does your family know what your vision is? How much of that is taught and how much of that is caught?

22:45Yeah. Uh I'd I'd like to say yes and yes. Yeah. Our Sunday family meetings are a big vision point. Yeah. Right. And listen, not everyone's this epic Martin Luther King speech. You know what I mean? Like that it's but it does always point to the vision. So that's part of the tot. And then how we live it out Sunday to Sunday is the cot.

23:13Yeah, that's good. Right. So what is the vision? Yeah.

23:16Yeah. And so I mean, what's fun is like at dinner, and and listen, let me, I always want to be vulnerable. We have dinner at 4 45 right now because at five o'clock, we have to take four kids to five practices.

23:29Yeah.

23:30So the math doesn't work. But at our 4 45 p.m. dinner, we're celebrating, man. Hey, got a new client today because our vision for this family is to help coach a generation. And and I a kid's talking about something that they told about Jesus or invited to church, or Molly's talking about a really cool lunch that she had with the gal and helped her move forward. Right. So I think that's also where it's it's simultaneously taught and caught. We're exampling it. And then it's just part of our flow.

23:56Yeah.

23:56Right. And and so they know what we're about. They know that we're about impact. They know that we have a coaching company, and the whole point of that is to help people be their best. So them at school, since they're part of this family, let's help them be the best. That's the vision. Okay. And why we have standards and guardrails that maybe their friends don't have. Our kids got phones and access later because our standard was different. Right? We had we had guardrails in place for that. That's not judging anybody else's. It's different for every family. Right. But there are certain things. There's there's shows that we don't watch that other people do because our standard's a little different.

24:35Yeah.

24:36Right. And so, but it makes sense. It's okay. They can wrap their head around it. We have conversations about it. They may not always initially agree, but it does always point to they're clear on our vision. They've they've been taught and it's been caught. And so it makes the necessity for the standard in the guardrail at least acceptable. And then they eventually see the power of it because they see the fruit of where we're headed.

25:02Okay, so I want to talk about that. You're you're referring to your family's vision. When you say that, just to make it really this piece really practical, is that a stated vision that your family has?

25:14You know what? We have done that in the past. And I could I could probably pull it up. I think more than anything now, and and I think that's a good thing to do. And honestly, if I was being real strategic, we would probably revisit it every year. We might say it out loud in the mornings. Ours right now is probably just more in action. Yes. Of this is where we're headed. And honestly, like if you asked any of the kids, like in the mornings, we say silly stuff like, hey, winners win, and then they say, I say winners win, losers lose. And they say, and I'm a winner, right? So that's where we go. So there's a bit of a vision about who we are and what we're doing, but it's also understood we help other people win. That's at the at the core of our family. And that was probably on the vision statement that we practiced a lot more, you know, in in recent years. But I think that's the idea, Joey, is like they they do know who we are and what we're about. We love Jesus. And I will say, even more, I think, effective than an all-out vision statement, is they are very clear on some of our culture points. Yeah. And on a different episode, I think we really just dive into that. Yeah. But like they know some of like our key, we have five key words, and that actually helps move the vision forward a little bit better than kind of like a one-line statement. Like, like they know that that the hearts are confident, right? We've got a statement that speaks to that. They know that we're compassionate, they know that we bring energy, right? There's certain things that are just a part of who we are, and so these start really kind of merging together, but I think that their understanding of our culture and how we do things is actually what makes uh producing the vision possible.

26:55I also think, Chris, a lot of what we're talking about here, it's great to listen to a podcast and think about these things. But man, I also think that value of just sitting in silence for a few minutes, just you in a notepad thinking through this. If you took 10 minutes this week, everybody who did that, if everybody took 10 minutes of silence this week on vision, that's an infinite amount more than you probably did last year on it. Because 10 and you know, anything more than zero is infinite. So 10 minutes more in doing that. So I don't know that this takes a ton of time in what we're talking about. It just requires some focus and intention.

27:30Okay, so all that being said, Joey, that's let's call that the foundational framework for why we need the guardrails. Let's get real practical. And we're gonna dig into four guardrails. And I don't know, you you could pick a number. It's probably about 70% of us listening. If we would really hone in on these guardrails, it's at least a great foundational starting point. And then there's a couple that you might add uniquely and individually. But number one, if we're gonna protect the vision, calling, and purpose of our life, we've got to be real clear on our boundary with the opposite sex. Whoever you are, wherever you are, you you work in corporate, you work from home, whatever it might be, if you're married or single, how you interact with and appropriate the opposite sex is gonna be critical. So let's just start with the idea like, don't wait until temptation shows up to decide where your boundary is. I was a youth pastor for years. If you get in the back of the car, it's gonna be bad. You got to decide ahead of time that we're not doing that. Right. So for you, and I use this example, man. You you travel, man. Who do you travel with? Man, you have meetings. Who else is in the meeting? Right? I'm I'm a fella, so I don't go to lunch with a lady without somebody else. Two things. One, I don't want the temptation. Two, I don't want it to seem like it's an inappropriate moment if somebody just walked by because I want my reputation to be clear and God honoring.

29:02Yeah.

29:03Right. So a lot of a lot of stuff to unpack with the opposite sex. Joey, where do you go naturally with this specific guardrail?

29:09I I'm constantly amazed by the pushback to this. The the as man, the Mike Pence got so much grief when talking about the Billy Graham rule and what it's what it's easy. So I want to in in a way, I want to like dispel a couple myths real quick about this. You saying you want to get rid of the temptation, that is in no way prideful of you saying that all women are going to be attracted to you. Yeah. Which I wouldn't be shocked if they were, let's be honest. Easy. But easy. But but it's not in no way, it's not a reflection on, it's actually not a reflection on the women. It's a reflection of just a recognition of my own frailty. That's it. Like I know, like I we we all we all know this, and so it's it's not putting yourself in a position where you have to even like test the boundaries there. The the other thing I want to dispel is is this is not a limiting factor to a woman, like a somebody you work with in their career. What you're not saying is I'm never gonna meet with this person. It's just I'm gonna be strategic about the people we're around. That's it. Adding a third into the conversation, leaving a door open for a meeting. It's that it's that little stuff. And so this is not limiting to somebody else. It's not a disparagement to them or a reflection of the other of the opposite sex. It is for you to say, hey, here are just the the boundaries that I set up for myself. So I understand how I understand maybe to some degree how people could push back on this, but let's just remember, let's just remember what guardrails are here for. It is the larger the vision, the larger the restraints, the larger the guardrails. So this is for you protecting something that is so much more important to you. So I think people even listening, I bet you that your marriage is more important than your job. So you're doing something that is, let's just say you got fired for upholding the Billy Graham rule, which probably won't happen. But in the meantime, you can say, like, I have preserved the thing that's most important to me. So I I think Chris, this is one, and again, I like that you said, even if you're unmarried, let's just think, hey, you want to, you just want to be wise for yourself. Let's just you're thinking wisely, and the the guardrails will look different, certainly, if you're married versus unmarried, but in any event, you're being methodical and thinking through this. And we all know I think if people will look back on their greatest mistakes in their life, probably about 75% of them had to do with the opposite sex. So this is worth this is worth this is worth your guardrail for sure.

31:45So in all these, what we're saying is you decide what it is for you. You can do whatever you want, that's right, but you get to decide what the standard's gonna be, and most people haven't actually like put on paper what the guardrail is, and it's amazing. Now that you've said it, this just becomes a non-negotiable that helps you make the next right decision.

32:05That's right. That's good.

32:06Okay, the second one our devices, your computer, laptop, phone, Joey, you're an expert in this category. And I think this one's a little bit twofold. Some of it's the time spent on devices, and then the other one is the content consumed on these devices. So you want to go there and kind of kind of kick this one off on some suggested guardrails?

32:30Yeah, I think again, this right here, this is a you know, relatively new last 20 years. This was we really had to start asking ourselves question about our phone, and again, all the other stuff is there too, for sure. But I do think that our phone being our constant companion, this is where it really needs some helpful guardrails and the encouragement I will give for all of us. Again, I I was co-founder of a tech company that helped people with this, and I experienced a bunch of growth there, but even now I find myself drifting, drifting, drifting. And it's because mainly reels are hilarious. But it's one very practical thing that I've done recently. I found myself at night scrolling more than I wanted to. I found myself in the morning, I found myself taking a look at my phone before I got in my quiet time. And so I did a very simple thing, and I think, especially with our phones, we overcomplicated too. Let's get real simple, real practical. So I said to Kristen, I want you, there's a downtime setting on your iPhone that will allow you to lock yourself out of your phone with the exception of calls and texts. And you can actually set it to whatever you'd like. So if you have an early flight, you can get the Delta app or whatever it is. But that says it locks you out of your phone from for me, it's 9 45 p.m. till 8 a.m. So I have no access to anything but my phone and like calls and texts during that time. Kristen, I just want you to plug in the passcode and I want you to be the only one that knows it. I'm telling you, that got rid of about 60% of any phone tension I felt, 80% of any tone. It's it's so silly. It's so and could I go to my laptop? Yes, but I also keep my laptop in the office way away from where the main living area is, so it takes some effort to go do that. By the way, I also put my I sleep with my phone downstairs and we sleep upstairs. So all these little things, this is all this idea of environment. And then of course, you can start getting into the nitty-gritty during the day. Am I using it? Well, there are time we we post Instagram reels for for the podcast here. I have Instagram on my phone from Tuesday to Thursday, so I can edit those, and then I delete it from Friday to Monday because those are the only days we post Tuesday to Thursday. So it's a little basic stuff that we do around here. But again, I think this falls in one of those categories. When I talk to people about what their regrets are, when I talk to them about the disconnection in their marriage, when I talk to them about like what's what's the tension with them and their kids, it's 90% phone. So we're talking about actually a pretty big piece of it here. And there are a bunch of great resources that I love out there that can help with this. Um, we can even we'll remember to put in the show notes a few of those resources for you as you're looking into how I can begin to do this well. But it it this this is one of those that the guardrails for your phone, please don't overcomplicate it. It can be really, really easy for you to ingrain some very practical things that will get your environment correct so that your environment can align with your intentions.

35:36Well, and remember that quote your environment is stronger than willpower.

35:40That's right.

35:41Right. So get the environment right. If I if I don't want to eat ice cream, quit having ice cream in the fridge. You know what I mean? Yeah. Where it would melt, you should put it in the freezer. But I think that reality is is all there. And and I'll just say this your phone, your devices should serve your vision, not quietly sabotage it.

35:58Yeah.

35:59Right? It's a great resource. Use it appropriately and and not let it detract from it. Yeah. Okay, number three. What are you actually putting in your body? Right. I'm just gonna call this substances. And for you, I would just say, man, what works? I'm fascinated with peptides right now. I think it's it's intriguing, right? Like creatine and protein and and all of that. And so that's a part of it. And then you get into the alcohol conversation. Man, I I've got some friends that are like, dude, I relax if I eat some gummies at night. Listen, whatever you're putting in your body, you get to decide that. Let's talk fast food, let's talk Diet Coke, right? I mean, there's it's a it's a a variety of things, but I think too few people are actually looking at it and saying, what serves the vision? When I was in book writing mode, I was consciously aware of what actually stimulated my brain food-wise. Like what's actually fueled? When I'm training hard in the gym, I'm very aware of it, right? And so this makes that point. When I've got a vision for my fitness, I'm eating different.

37:06Yeah.

37:06And when I don't, I cast off restraint. You get into like December, man, I'm I'm not to I'm just getting to wear a big comfy sweater. We're not out at the beach. I don't have a vision for the summer bod. I'm eating everything in front of me, right? So it's interesting. But so unless we keep the vision right and tight, and it's like, yeah, I know it's December. I know most people are gonna let it rip right now. What if we didn't? Yeah, what's it look like? Right? With your drinking, drink if you want to. If that if that's in your purview, great. But what's the guardrail? Man, if you're gonna drink tonight, I want you to go into it fully aware of your limit and be disciplined enough to carry that out.

37:47Yeah, right?

37:48Man, you're you're gonna take a couple. Great, run that new idea by a doctor, let them communicate to you effectively, that becomes a good guardrail. Yeah, we're not just trying things and hoping that it works out and looking for a quick fix on anything we're putting in our body. What do you think?

38:05I mean, specific for me, and I I can share this story in in more detail on another episode, but this for me kind of came to a head with alcohol a couple years ago. Is that I was a um I grew up in a house, we didn't we didn't drink no alcohol in the house. Um, graduated. Kristen, my wife, is the most moderate human I've ever met in my life. I remember our first date, she left two bites on her plates, and I'd never seen anybody do it before. I didn't know how she did it, how you could leave bites on your plate. So she's very moderate. So Kristen will have a glass of wine, a single glass of wine every night, and that's great with her. I find myself just like as I casually drank, um, as a generally like 98% of the time, never being a problem. But but I noticed myself a couple years ago, even through COVID, I noticed myself where it was one or two drinks, became three or four, and I noticed myself getting in social environments, and just for no for no ill reason, just like I get excited when I'm around people. So you'd go to a tailgate and I'd find myself having seven or eight drinks. And there was a particular night three years ago, whenever I had way too much to drink, I got way, I'll just say, like, definitely got hammered. And my kids saw that. Harrison was 15, Gianna was 13. My kids saw that, and I woke up the next morning, and there's more to the story there, but I woke up the next morning and I said to myself, this, my my kids are about to drive. Like Harrison's about to drive. They are in the peak moment here where they begin to figure out what's acceptable, what's not acceptable. And here I am speaking at churches. Here I am um running a business that talks about presence. Here I am doing a trying to have a great marriage, trying to teach my kids well, having quiet times every morning, and and I had a realization for myself that alcohol was in direct opposition to every, literally, every good thing I wanted in my life. Now, this is different from somebody again. I had to be honest with myself. This was something that I wasn't, it wasn't like a drink and I'm done. It really wasn't. So it was for me, I said, I don't have the personal restraint to be able to drink moderately. And so I need to make a hard line for myself. So this is this November will be three years ago that I just said said, at least, and Chris, I don't even know. This may be a season. I I I don't know. I don't I don't know that I've said to myself I'm quitting drinking for good, but I am saying, like, in this season, knowing my tendencies, this is in direct opposition to everything I want in my life, and I need a very firm guardrail. And I will tell you, for me, this has not been a difficult thing since I made that decision. It goes back to that Clayton Christensen quote I've said before is that it's easier to live your life according to 100% of your principles than 99% of them. So that hard line made it very, very easy on me. And that's by the way, that's a super embarrassing story to tell. I don't like telling that story, but I do for somebody listening who's saying, like, I can actually relate to that. I want to give you the courage. I'm gonna give you encouragement to just say, it's actually kind of awesome. And I'm not I'm not suggesting that everybody needs to do it, but if you can relate to some of those feelings that I had, it's actually been a really, really great restraint because it's propelled me, going back to the beginning of the episode, it's propelled me closer to the vision that I have for my life. Come on.

41:37Well, thanks for sharing it. I I know you don't love that story, but man, there's some juice to it. Right. And I'll just add on, I think it's it's interesting. I was retelling Molly a story, and there was some alcohol involved, and she just said, doesn't sound like you were at your best. Well, and I mean that hit me like it's all I want to do is be at my best. That's what we're striving to do. I want to live a brave and big life. And so I think that helps determine the guardrail. Yeah. Is does this actually help you to be at your best or not? And that makes it real simple. Yeah. Right. And then it also gives some thrust in the moments that the decision is difficult. It's like, oh yeah, that's why, and I'm okay with it. Yeah. We'll touch on one last area that that we think should at least kind of be a baseline to have a guardrail is just how you spend your money. Money gets people in trouble. Money is great. You can advance the kingdom with money, you can create legacy with it, all of that. So let's have some guardrails with it, right? Anything that can be powerful and can help facilitate your vision would need a guardrail. And so I just love the idea of what's it look like for you if you said, okay, what's what's my guardrail when it comes to making a significant purchase? What's my guardrail for investing? I've got guys that that like to gamble a little bit. Man, if that's your thing, what's your guardrail for it? Yeah. Right. So this is not us ever saying you must do this, but I would encourage, no matter what you've decided you do, that you have a plan, strategy, and guardrail that protects your vision. So just something real simple. If you said as a baseline, I'm gonna know what it looks like to give, save, invest, and spend. And Molly and I, our number has changed over the years, but we've always said, okay, if we're gonna spend X amount at that threshold, we make sure we're in alignment with it.

43:34Yeah.

43:34Right. So so I'm not just buying a new car. Let's run that by each other. Is this a good time for it? Does this make sense? You know, stuff like that. Hey, I've got a great investment opportunity. We're on the same page on that. And then I love the idea of man, who else do you run those things by? Man, what which friend knows your vision and can help make sure that your spending aligns with it? Where do you go with money, Joey?

43:56Yeah, that this is the there's a with there's a whole episode on this. And I think the best talk I've ever heard on money is from Andy Crouch, who we'll have on the show for sure. It's probably to talk about this, but he talks about the spiritual stronghold of money. It says that you can't serve both God and money. And what we're what talk what we're talking about is actually this the spiritual stronghold of money that can grip you. So there's there's some there's some stuff that can grip you with money, but I like that idea of of just laying out your intention. I have a friend back to gambling. I have a friend and he he said, Hey, I really don't want to gamble. I actually deleted the app on the gambling app on my phone. I was like, great. I said, Hey, will you do me a favor? If you ever add it back, will you just tell me that you added it back? And that was it. I I said, I'm not gonna judge you. I just want to hear your rationalization in that moment for why it was okay to add it back. That's it. Just just us being honest with ourselves is is really the main thing. And so I think with with money, there's so much here, there's a ton here, but alignment with your spouse, setting out your intentions, you just made it super simple. Give, save, invest, spend. What are your percentages? And just stick with those. And then if you deviate outside of those, just be honest with yourself on why you did it. That and you may come to the real realization that said that, you know what, because I saw an investment opportunity on that I that you know, I'd I'd worked with these guys before and I decided to deploy some more money. Great. You just you just rationalized, or you may say, I think I probably made a bad spending decision. Okay, also, but just continue to have that clearly in front of you and be honest with yourself, and then supercharge it by certainly if you're married, aligning with your spouse. It's great to do that when you're in community with people as well. But um, there's a ton there, and I think that, and again, I think just us being honest with ourselves is probably the first step.

45:48Yeah, okay. Opposite sex, devices, substance, and money. Let that be a jumping off point for guardrails. There's a vision and a call on your life, and it's all unique and different to each of us. If you were going to entertain two more, right, and I think everybody should say, what are the other ones that I should look into? I would challenge you to create a guardrail for pride. Recognize what stirs your pride because it can be such a hindrance to what God wants to do in your life. And the other one, which is maybe the other end of this, would be what's your guardrail for your comfort?

46:28Right.

46:28I think a lot of a lot of people get stuck in comfort and stop pursuing the vision because they got to a point that was comfortable. We'll talk more about that, but I just wanted to kind of tease and poke you with that a little bit as we start to wrap up here. But just this idea of as you run down the path of your vision, our request of you would be to continue to evaluate the guardrails and hopefully tighten the guardrails as you get more clear and further down the path of vision. You're gonna do things great, you're gonna impact people. There's people on the other side of your obedience. And here's the deal there's people on the other side of the appropriate guardrails.

47:11Yeah.

47:11Right? We keep these things right and where they're supposed to be. It's amazing the people that will see that and follow that. I I'm I'm living a life now. There's more for me to screw up. There's more on the line. There's there are more people counting on me. Joey, people are counting on you. You've had impact, you've got books releasing, and and all the stuff that's going to take place. So let's get let's recognize the power of the guardrail, embrace it, love it, know what's on the other side of it, and really live a life with these firmly in place.

47:43Well, we we close it out every week with with one small thing. We we want you to take all of this stuff we've said, and this is one of the more challenging parts for us is to think through the next seven days. Hey, if we're gonna be brave and we're gonna live big and we're gonna have vision and guardrails and all that stuff, Chris, next seven days, someone has to do one thing. You can't do two things, you can do one thing, one small step over the next seven days to kind of bring all this together, the guardrail vision with guardrails. What's the one small thing you want someone to do over the next seven days?

48:18I would ask you to take 10 minutes and list out the four categories that we presented opposite sex, substances, devices, and money. And write down one to three guardrails that you will keep in place. And now you have it. And that this could change. Hopefully, they increase as you move down the road. But if you would do this over the next seven days, and then the only other thing would be run it by your loved one. If you're married, make sure that you guys are in alignment. If not, run it by a covenant friend. But make sure that you have that, and now you've at least got the boundary, and you can you can operate and you can tweak and you can advance that. But if you'll do that in the next seven days, you're gonna set yourself up to live a brave and big life.

49:07I'll close with one adaptation on Proverbs 29:18. It says where there's no vision, the people cast off restraint, but he that keeps the law happy is he. I'll change that very last part, and this is for you. I just want the promise that comes along with you having a vision and establishing guardrails. I'll just say that he that lives within the guardrails happy as he. She that lives within the guardrails happy as she. The end result of you living within the guardrails that propel you to your vision is happiness. So I want to encourage you to do that. This is worth fighting for. So this week, be brave, live big. We'll see you next week. Okay, real quick, triple S for us. Subscribe, share, star, give us five stars wherever you listen to podcasts. Thank you so much for joining us this week on Brave and Big. Brave and Big is produced by Stonest Podcast and the brilliant Miles All Britain. We will see you next week.