Wartime: Marriage & Parenting In The Hardest Season (Part 1)

0:04Welcome to Brave and Big, where we talk about living a Brave and Big Life. I'm Joey Odom, husband to Kristen, dad to Harrison Indiana, speaker, former tech co-founder and author.

0:13I'm Chris Hart, husband to Molly, dad to Blakely, Cooper, Landry, and my son Brave. I'm the CEO and founder of the Brave Group and Brave Performance Agent. Joey and I have been having these talks for 25 years, and we're better for it. We believe the same will be true for you. Enjoy this episode. Be brave and live big. Hey, big shout out to all the party people that are ready for another Brave and Big Episode.

0:41Babe, babe, babe! Let's go. Hey, party people shoutouts. That's like that's late 90s stuff right there, isn't it?

0:49Well, listen, certain people perked up and they're like, wait, I used to be a party people. And then other guys are like, man, maybe I should be a party people. You know, so who however that hits you, I hope that you are ready for a great episode of Brave and Big.

1:04Come on, Joey. Hey, for those of you who thought about tag team back again, that's those, those, those are the people we're talking to right there because they know what party people are. Target market. Absolutely. Hey, um, Hart, did you know? And there's a chance that I I don't know that I actually knew this until today. Do you know that you can watch us on YouTube? Did you know you don't just have to listen that you can actually watch on YouTube? Were you aware of this?

1:27You know me, super tech guy. I did not know that was an option, but now I know what I'm gonna do every night is just just check us out on YouTube. That'd be fun.

1:36Absolutely. Hey, listen, I know I know Pat Trump's out there. I know Luke Collins out there, I know Lurky's watching it. Like I know, I know we got some folks watching. They've told us them boys? Them boys. Yeah. Check us out on YouTube. Come on. Come on. And it's at Brave Big Pod. On YouTube at Brave Big Pod. Chris, I want to I want to kick off a little bit. Like there's I have a little bit of an affliction that that may be worth us talking through just for just for a second. It is a little something called misophonia. Mama misophonia. Did you did you know that I have misophonia? And do you know what misophonia is?

2:12And how do you digest it? I I picture I've ordered that before and didn't even know it. Tell tell me all about it.

2:18Misophonia is when you have a an extreme and almost violent reaction to the sound of other people eating. Ooh. And buddies you have that? In full force. It was listen, and I will tell you, this was self-diagnosed for years. And then I got literally a few years ago, we did a 23andMe, like test your genetic markers. And big guy, it was literally on my genetic markers that I have misophonia.

2:48I gotta, I gotta do 23andMe, I guess. Who who knows what other things you don't know about? You're bothered and it's genetic.

2:57Yeah, and it's I mean, there there are many of us too. My literally, my sister Jamie and I, our Instagram DMs back and forth are just are just videos talking about misophonia, about how much we love our kids and how much when they smack their food, just about how we almost lose it. But do you can you relate to this at all?

3:15Do you think slow drivers would show up on 23andMe? Is that I mean, I cannot stand slow or just being in a line anywhere would would maybe be my thing.

3:26The easy thing on on chewing is this you go, you go, lips should touch before the teeth. Period. This is a very easy thing. Lips, then teeth. It's easy. If the chip's too big, break that sucker in half. No big deal.

3:40Uh I did write down your how to eat tips. I'm gonna work a lot harder on that.

3:44Thank you.

3:45And just as a friend that gets to eat with you every now and then, I'm gonna do my part not to activate sophonia.

3:51Thank you very, very much. That means a lot.

3:53Um, well, and it ties great into where we're going today. If you've lasted this long, if you if you've tolerated us, you're gonna appreciate where we go. And I think we'll make a very deep spiritual connection here. But this really is an awesome topic. Um, here's the deal we're gonna talk about peacetime and wartime. And Joey has written on this, studied on this. I'm gonna ask some probing questions and just kind of let him let it rip and then chime in. But this is gonna be great. And it specifically pertains to kids, and then it it dovetails into a whole lot of cool stuff. So, Joey Odom, I'm gonna ask you not to be bothered by other random things right now. I need you to focus, but man, give us the juice, bro. Let's talk peacetime, wartime, let's go.

4:43And I want to take you back, like I'll take you back many, many years. I want you to just to picture this scene. Joey Odom, me, young Joey Odom, 3 a.m., several drinks in, in the middle of a Las Vegas casino. And here I am, way later than I should be, having a few more drinks than I should have had. And you're probably at this point thinking, like, oh, this is probably like single Joey. This is this is 23-year-old version of Joey, just kind of kind of hanging out, doing, you know, living the bachelor life. No, no, no. This is 33-year-old Joey. I got a five-year-old and a three-year-old back at home. I got a wife back at home, and here I am in the middle of a casino at 3 a.m. I get a call from my wife. I get a call from Kristen, and she says that her parents were in crisis. This led to a multi-year journey after that, but her parents are in crisis and that we need to do something. It ultimately resulted in my mother-in-law living with us for several years. And I think back on that moment, Chris. I mean, I again, I got a five-year-old, I got a three-year-old, I'm in the thick of wartime, and yet I'm 3 a.m. in a casino, 2,000 miles away from my family. Now I'm I'm at a real estate conference. There was some legitimate work stuff there, certainly. I mean, nothing went, nothing crazy happened in Vegas or anything like that. But I just think about that moment. And when I think about this, I've thought about this a bunch and other moments like that. And I think about me being in the thick of wartime, but trying to apply peacetime principles in wartime. Trying to apply peacetime principles in wartime. So for this context, let's let's define exactly what I mean. When I when I'm talking wartime, we're really referring to a stage of your kids' life. We're talking probably like zero to sixteen. When your kids are zero to sixteen, living in your home. Hey, maybe four, maybe they maybe it ends at 14, maybe it ends at 18, but somewhere in this range where you're just kind of all hands on deck, where you're absolutely rolling with your spouse. So a note about that, really important. When we talk about wartime, this is not a bad time. This is just a fact. This is you know what I mean. Like this is just the moment you're in. I mean, heart, you I mean, you're you're actually you got you got four kids, you are sitting in wartime right now, right?

7:02Where it's I'm 46 and and in wartime, baby. Yeah, it's on.

7:06Yeah, because you're you're and again, it's not like it's not like people are mad at each other. It's just you probably feel like you're a taxi driver, right? Yeah. So we so here we are, you got young kids at home, and it may look like this. So I'll I'll describe, and this is by the way, this is not just a principle for men, not a principle for women. This is all of us who are in this moment. And it may look like this. You got you got young kids at home. Hey, your hormones might be surging right now. You you might be working your tail off to get something built great at work. You might be homeschooling kids. You you and your in-laws might not be getting along. You might not be having sex as much as you used to or as much as you want to. You're being pulled in a thousand different directions, everyone dependent on you. Your kids need you, your husband needs you, your wife needs you, and you might be thinking, This is not what I signed up for. So if you're in that moment, I want to tell you something that you right now are in wartime.

8:06I just love the premise that you just laid, and I can't tell you how many for me, fellas that I work with in coaching, and this actually kind of creates a vocabulary for what they're feeling. Right? Because you've got all the but to your point, this is also the same time you're trying to build something great.

8:25That's right.

8:26Right? We we've been building the Brave Group for the last eight years, and it's been the absolute crux of when my kids need me the most. In that eight years, my son was born, and my daughter will be turning 16. I mean, it's just so it's everything. And then you factor in, think about this too. Now we've got in this time frame, sometimes parents getting older that we need to navigate. You're you're paying off your college loans and then preparing to start paying for college loans for your kids, right? I mean, so it is an interesting culmination. And I think one thing I would put on here is just simple the idea that we have to be confident of the season that we're in, like an awareness of the season. That's why I love how you're laying this out. You're you're letting us know, man, this is what we call this season. Yeah, so let's give it a name so we're not surprised by it. And then not just that, but equipped for that season. Right? If I if if I was unaware and I'm gonna go play golf, if I take my putter up to the T box, I am ill-equipped.

9:33Yeah.

9:34Right. And I'm I'm no farmer, but I understand the difference in a planting season and a harvesting season. And if I take harvesting equipment out when I'm supposed to be planting seed, I can't function in either one.

9:46Man.

9:47And now the harvest is coming in, and I'm coming out there with a bunch of seed in my hand and I'm not ready for it. Right. So really understanding the season and grabbing it. And so I'm hoping that everybody listening now is like, okay, let me let me wrap my head around this. I'm I'm in it, I'm coming into it. I might be transitioning out of it, but I love that we're giving some context to the season. And now I think we can kind of speak to and equip for the season that we understand now.

10:12I mean, think about that. Think, you know, it's almost like I think about, you know, both of my kids drive now. Like I will say, for me, I would say that I am not in wartime right now. With my kids, uh Harrison is 18, Gianna is 16, they're senior and juniors. We worked our tail off. That's part of the principle of how how you know engaged you are during wartime. What can expedite peacetime? That's an interesting idea there. But I would not say I'm in wartime now, but bro, I remember in being in wartime, and there were times like, oh, do I really have to take do I have to take Harrison to tennis again? It's like, yeah, dum dum, you do because that's what you do right now, because you're the one that signed him up for tennis, and he needs to get there somehow. So it's it's to your point, like, yeah, let's be aware of it so we're not surprised by it. I love that.

11:00Well, and it's interesting. I love that we're talking about this. Somebody gave me a heads up personally because my oldest is 15. They're like, this is probably the crux of all of that because it's the final year before you have any help getting kids around. Yes. So to your point, like you ever just, well, yeah, I am an absolute unpaid Uber driver.

11:21Yes.

11:22For four Joey, there's times we'll have five practices a night between four kids. The math doesn't math between two drivers, right? So it driving is one big example of this, but it really does kind of hone in on what you're experiencing and feeling right in wartime.

11:38Which is not then that that's that's not to mention prioritizing date night, prioritizing daily stuff. We'll get into all of that. Um so the the one the one big idea, and this there are a bunch of big ideas here, and I'm I'm even wondering, there's so much to unpack, and I'm so excited about this, but I'll give one big idea is that the ones who thrive in wartime are the ones who recognize the wartime moment and then apply wartime principles. But the ones who fail are the ones who try to apply peacetime principles in wartime moments. Let me say that again. The ones who fail are the ones who try to apply peacetime principles in wartime moments. Hit me a little reflection there.

12:24I'm just thinking of the countless examples in the Bible, and I I think we're gonna dive into that. But it's like there there's so many people that and it's interesting because sometimes there's a shift and it it can almost kind of quickly happen too. And I know kids don't just like magically turn 16 or 18, but it I'm I'm excited to actually get in and show some biblical examples of this, yeah, because it really does flow. And we can't, I've got plenty of friends that serve in the military, and it's like, hey, when it's wartime, they are different, they they are on base different, they are ready differently, their training is different, their mindset is different, you know. And so I I love the idea of recognizing that and saying, okay, here's the tactics I have to use. Here's what needs to be at the forefront of my mind, here's the training. Because remember, we don't rise to the level of expectations, we fall to our training.

13:18Yeah.

13:18Well, let's let's apply that to wartime and peacetime and realize and be ready for what's called for in that season.

13:26That's right.

13:27You want let's take it to the word a little bit. You got some examples here that that make sense?

13:30I mean, the the the top example, not only like metaphorically, but actually literally, is is from 2 Samuel. And we got King David, King David, and by the way, at this moment in 2 Samuel, like David is absolutely crushing it. I mean, this dude is on, he's just smoking folks. Here's what he does: he goes and he smokes the Philistines, he smokes the Moabites, he smokes the Syrians, he smokes the Edomites, he smokes those suckers, the Ammonites, you know what I mean? Like he is on an absolute roll. And he the Bible, the Bible leading up to this story recounts seven consecutive military victories. So he's in wartime and he is dominating. And then when you man, I even just got chills in this because it's like the tone changes when you read this story. And man, it's just it's like it almost like hurts reading it, but the tone changes. And you, if you if you read the Bible, if you've heard this illustration, you know this line. It says, In the spring, when kings go off to war, David remained in Jerusalem. I mean, that's that is that that's as haunting a line when you read the rest of the story. That that preface to that. And what happened next was a defining moment for David. So there are a lot of people listening. You may not have known that he beat the Moabites, that he defeated the Moabites, but you do know that he cheated with Bathsheba. So here he is when he's supposed to be at war, he's sitting back home. And so I want I want to go to taking that. There are a bunch of principles from that, but the first one is this, and it's exactly what you just said. You have to recognize that you are in wartime. If you're in the stage that we described, you have to recognize that you're in wartime. David forgot what time it was. And and and by the way, here's here's one thing that I think is very encouraging. Because I talk about this with people a bunch. Here's what it's okay. And I want you to just hear this for a moment, if you're listening, like it's okay to acknowledge this is hard. This is really hard. You are in a hard season, not not just hard emotionally, but hard logistically, like hard in all of the ways, hard, hard in your intimacy, like hard in a bunch of stuff in your life to stay consistent, to stay persistent. And so if if you're tired or you're emotional, or you're grumpy, or you're uh with your wits end, or you feel like you can't do it, of course, because this of course that's how you feel. You it's because you are in wartime, so you can't expect to do what you used to do. You can't do peacetime things in wartime. David avoided his wartime responsibilities by sitting at home during wartime.

16:13Isn't it wild to think about all of the small moments and examples of this in our lives?

16:19100%.

16:20You know, it's your kid has asked to go to youth group that night, and it's just like, man, I do not want to drive you again. Right. And and now you're sitting at home and you get in this big argument, or something happens, and it's like, I tell you what might have prevented some of that was doing what I should have done in that moment and putting them where they should be. Right. I th I think about just little stuff, even man, it's to your point, it's hard, man, it's hard to get up early and go to the gym, but that might be what's necessary to stay in shape in this season because I don't want to miss family dinner. And that would be my other option for a workout time.

16:56Yeah.

16:57So you're looking, so it's an interesting kind of cause and effect on this, and really recognizing. I love to say it like this, man, just what's on the line.

17:06Yes.

17:07That somehow, somehow, that's what David, as great as he was, as powerful as he was, as wise, as courageous, man, he forgot what was on the line and didn't go and do what he was called and supposed to do, and as a result of that, put himself in a terrible situation.

17:25Do you do you think that that uh as much as you've reflected, you've heard the story. Why do you think? I mean, is that was is that how you'd answer it? Like he just forgot what was on the line? Like, why do you why do we think that he was back at home when he should have been on the front lines?

17:40I personally think that there was some comfort involved there because it just recounted everything he had just accomplished. And we could do that, yeah. Like, think about that. It's like, man, I I did work out this morning, I I did some calls, I made some sales, I sent a nice text to my spouse. I that and then it would be easy in the evening to submit to comfort instead of doing the next thing that you should do in wartime. It's as simple as that on a daily basis. And then big picture, I think honestly, if we want to get real here, this is what happens with marriages in wartime, is we're not making enough time and room and space and margin for each other. Everything else is happening, and certain things fall to the side. And so, out of comfort, let's just stay in and kind of be on our phones tonight instead of doing the date night that we know we should do, which is critical for wartime. So it's it's also an interesting compound effect, Joey. I love I'm telling you, I love the groundwork you've laid because I just keep thinking about this this lack of discipline here leads to this lack of discipline there. But it also works to our advantage. I am gonna do the next right thing, and that's gonna compound. And I really believe as we're starting to kind of help people process this, like, man, it it really does boil. The zoom out is I want a great marriage in wartime. The zoom out is we're raising great kids that I can trust when they start driving. The zoom in is what am I saying yes to right now, even though it's inconvenient and uncomfortable, that yes right now in wartime is critical to get the peacetime results we're looking for.

19:30The thing that we we won't even talk about in the story. I mean, let's the the continuation of the story, by the way. It gets worse. Yeah, yeah. It caught you talk about compounding. You just said comfort compounded to an affair. Oh, by the way, then he killed Bathsheba's husband. Oh, then by the way, she got pregnant. Oh, then by the way, the baby died. It's I mean, like thing after thing after thing, as a result of that seeking of comfort. And and I think one thing in these moments, and I love that you said that about comfort, because I think it's a principle that we have to recognize here. And it's when you're in wartime, a fact of wartime is this is that you might not fully recover. Like you just might not. And in war, as I've read again, I'm I was not in the military. Um, as this continues to develop, we'll I'll apply a bunch more military stuff behind it. But in war, this is such a great line. Rest isn't recovery, rest is readiness. So you're not trying to recover, you just got to fight for rest so you can stay ready. So that that's an encouragement to you because and they talk about this this idea within uh within military strategy, they talk about combat multipliers. And how about this? Fatigue, and I think anybody can relate to this because you're probably tired right now, but fatigue is a combat multiplier for the enemy. Wow. And when I'm saying I'm saying, I'm saying lowercase e right now. Not, I mean, we're that's not even spiritual, that's just like period, like the enemy of whatever it is, and of course, on the spiritual side, capital E, that fatigue is a combat combat multiplier, that the enemy doesn't have to work as hard, just has to get you tired. And the line I love that goes along with this, and this is one of my favorite quotes, is just simply that fatigue makes cowards of us all.

21:17Yep. Oh, that's good.

21:19Isn't that good? The fatigue makes cowards of us all. Problems seem bigger when we're tired. My marriage, the problems in my marriage seem insurmountable when I'm tired. My kids are a lost cause when I'm tired, and on and on and on, and that all begins with fatigue. And so, if we can, just as a quick little we went with a bunch of to-dos here and a bunch of takeaways. So just recognize you got to fight for rest, and it may not be recovery, but it has to be readiness, so you can be ready to do the next right thing.

21:54Gosh. My buddy Josh Turpin was in the military, doesn't talk a lot about. Big war stories or anything like that. He's he's a little private on those things. But he did say when he first got deployed, there was a six-week period where he or anybody else in his company didn't shower. They'd sleep about three hours at a time because what they got thrust into required their readiness constantly.

22:22Wow.

22:23Because I actually remember taking my first shower and realizing how long it had been. They were sleeping in Humvees and sleeping on the I mean, just it they they were thrust into. And so I think, you know, let's let's think about that for us. Sometimes, like, this has been a wild summer, or man, that back to school season is crazy. Or man, the holidays. I mean, you can make a case for every season of the year, yes, right? And and just recognizing it. And but I like that idea. It's like, let's fight for rest because we do need to stay ready. And it's going to be different. Your actions, your habits, your mindset, all those are gonna be different. This is how we act in peacetime. And if you're not in that right now, if it is wartime, yeah, I can't I can't help but think of that quote. It says, It's better to be a warrior in a garden than a gardener in war. I'm ready. Yeah, bring it on. I stay ready.

23:16Yeah.

23:16Every day might not be hand-to-hand combat, but I am ready because I realize it's wartime. It might be. And then when it is peacetime, it's like, man, I appreciate that you've been ready, and you might be able to have a different kind of a pace or a different cadence, and that's okay, but you stay ready in those seasons.

23:33So good. So, first thing I want to give you the third, the first thing on just the things to know. The first thing to know, recognize you're in wartime. This is hard. You are in wartime. Second, you can't do peacetime things in wartime. Third one is, and this all goes back to David, is don't make a catastrophic mistake in the fog of war. Don't make a catastrophic mistake in the fog of war. I did a little bit of research on this idea of the fog of war, if you're familiar with that term. And my favorite summary of that is the fog of war, it's the inability to see the full picture while events are unfolding around you. The inability to see the full picture while events or chaos or battle or whatever are unfolding around you. And so in this moment, you just have to know in wartime. Like you just have to know this. You don't have all the information right now. Things seem much bigger than they are. You don't understand why, why you have to keep doing this with you know taking your kids everywhere. You may not understand why your your sex isn't what it was. Like you, you, you have all these things and you just can't. And again, that word, it's not like your unwillingness, it is your inability to see. You can't see it. So you can't fully rely on your own vision while all this stuff is happening around you. And as a result, you got to tighten your bandwidth for mistakes. You you gotta, you gotta, you gotta really do a good job in building up guardrails. We've talked about guardrails, and I want you to talk about this in a second. This this idea of having guardrails, we've talked about it before, but you're driving down the highway, you're driving around a mountain pass, and you have a guardrail on the side that if you hit the guardrail, it'll kind of ding up your car. But if the guardrail weren't there, you would fall off in the ravine. And guardrails are helpful. So tightening that. So, question Who's your workout partner? Who's your walking partner? Is is your date night non-negotiable? Do you do you have actual accountability? Do you confess even the smallest of mistakes to the people around you? Like when you when you have that quick little thought, that while it's just a seed, do you go confess that with somebody you have actual accountability who will give you both grace and truth in that moment to ensure that that seed thought doesn't grow into something larger? But you have to tighten, tighten, tighten to make sure that you're not gonna make this these massive mistakes, that you don't make a catastrophic mistake because you have guardrails in place, they're gonna ensure that doesn't happen.

26:04Joey, as a youth pastor, the the common line would would simply be hey, you gotta think ahead and create your standard before you get in the situation.

26:13That's it.

26:14Right. Young persons get to the backseat of the car, bad things are gonna happen. Right? I've decided ahead of time that's not an option. And so I I would encourage everybody that's that's hearing this, like, okay, wait, I recognize it. I'm gonna I'm gonna follow the cadence here. I am in wartime. Okay, I don't want to get messed up in the fog. I I can't see absolutely everything, but I can focus on what's right in front of me, and I can create guardrails for that.

26:39Yeah, right?

26:40Yeah, it's interesting. A guy called me yesterday and he goes, Hey, heads up, just had a meeting with a new agent. She is beautiful. I am saying out loud, I don't ever meet alone with that agent. Come on, it's great. It is nothing against her at all. He recognized where there could be a misstep and and created a guardrail ahead of time.

27:01Yes.

27:01Now it's never an opportunity for it to go somewhere it shouldn't because the guardrail's in place. And I love that. Man, you you hit the guardrail, it messes up your paint, but you're back on the road, right? And and I want you thinking about the fact like we're protecting things here, we're protecting your calling. You're in wartime, and there's still a call of God in your life.

27:22Come on.

27:23You're in wartime and we're protecting the vision that's inside of you. And some of that vision might be for right now, but some of that vision's for down the road a little bit. So we have to protect you now. I think all the time, it's like, man, what is our life? It's gonna be very different when we're not in this season.

27:39Yeah.

27:39But man, I want to protect the character, I want to protect our integrity, I want to protect our reputation, all of that now, and not let fatigue or fog affect where we're headed, get us off track, hinder it, or slow it down.

27:54Come on.

27:55Hey, will you do this? Will you speak to flexibility in this season? I think this is a this is a really cool point. Yeah. And if if we'll if we can maintain, man, kind of keep things open-handed, it's not gonna always be exactly how we planned it, but maybe speak to that a little bit because I think that helps.

28:11Yeah, this is the fourth thing to know is that you have to know, and this is gonna be hard for for my type A folks out there. This is gonna be really hard. But in war, flexibility is the plan. Like, like you have flexibility is not an option, it's not a nice to have. No, it is the plan. You can you can have all the greatest plans, all the greatest intentions. Obviously, that Mike Tyson quote that maybe the greatest quote of all time is that everyone has a plan until they get punched in the mouth. Hey, say it like Mike Tyson, though, Joey. Can you do that? Hey, everybody has the plan until they get punched in the mouth. Pretty good, you know what I'm saying? So everybody, so I'm telling you, when that baby comes out of that birth canal, yeah, that you just got punched in the mouth.

28:53That that's different. Didn't see that coming. Yeah, that's that's exactly what I'm saying.

28:56Yeah. So you gotta be flexible with it. So you can't. So I'll just I'll I'll speak to the guys right now. And I found myself, I caught myself doing this a lot. I caught myself probably kind of whining with Kristen sometimes, and it was just like, well, we I we were supposed to fill in the blank, but I thought we were gonna fill in the blank. Come on, sucker. Like, you gotta be flexible, and you have to know that that is the plan. A kid stays up until 1 a.m. because their teeth are, you know, cutting through their gums and they're crying. Well, yeah, maybe you don't go do the thing you were, maybe you're not golfing on Saturday morning, or maybe you're not doing whatever you planned, even if it was good or bad. So to me, this is the real key is that you gotta be flexible in all of these situations and be in sync with your spouse there, recognizing that flexibility actually is your plan and all that. How's that hit the heart household?

29:46Oh, brother, I it's almost great to just recognize if you say it like that, then it it takes any guesswork away.

29:53Yeah.

29:54Right? You're not caught off guard or surprised that you had to be flexible. You woke up that day praying for grace for flexibility, right? And I and I think that's the thing. Molly's dad says, uh, blessed are the flexible, for they will not be bent out of shape, right? And it's just like this old I love that. That's just some good old Baptist church talk, you know.

30:15Just that idea. But that's a Cleburn, Texas, right there, son.

30:17That's Clebone to the to the T. That's that's what they they're saying. Somebody's saying that right now. But that's the idea. If that becomes option A, yeah, then all of a sudden we're not shocked because we're on option D. That's right. Today's gonna be different. Like, I I have a great plan. I love setting plans. I'm I'm calendared, and and we've had to become color-coded, so we get everybody where they're supposed to get, but something's going to change. I have clients that have to change stuff all the time. And and and what do you know? The soccer field's flooded, and and and what's next, man? Dinner burnt. And I mean, it's the deal. But what I love is this idea. It's like, man, God's mercy is new and fresh every morning. So why would I try to take yesterday's plan or yesterday's mercy into today? Yeah. I'm tapping today's mercy for all of the audibles that are going to need to be called because I know that that's the kind of season that we're in, and I can adjust and recalibrate accordingly.

31:12Think about what happens in a marriage if you both had that understanding that flexibility is the plan. Now, I don't want to one caution I want to give is that don't abuse the flexibility. Like, fellas, if you said you're gonna be home at 5:30, 6 o'clock for dinner, be home at 5 30 or 6 o'clock for dinner. You know what I mean? Like, don't use this as a as an excuse to get comfortable. And and don't like, it's almost like you could weaponize this line. So it's almost like for yourself, it's it's remembering that like the oh, I'm gonna be flexible with the external circumstances, but for me, I'm gonna give it all I have.

31:43So that's a great way to that's a great way to say it. But for you, you don't get the parking spot you want, you don't get been out of shape.

31:49Yeah, right.

31:50Yeah.

31:50For your family, I'm doing everything I can to run the play and run the plan. And if it doesn't happen, I have grace for me and I have grace for them. But this is not a formula to operate from sloppiness.

32:02That's right. That's so good.

32:03Flexibility doesn't equal sloppy. Flexibility is a mindset and a grace as we attack a plan we have in place.

32:10Andy Stanley talks about grace. He says that he says that grace is something that we want from others but don't like to give to others, which is so true. But but this, but I like I like the distinction there, and I really do think if you could have that mindset of flexibility with your spouse and your kids, that will transform. That alone will transform your family, transform your marriage, transform your relationship with your kids. It's a good challenge for me, even as I think about it. Which kind of flows into the fifth one. So fourth flexibility is a plan. We the fifth one goes back into combat multipliers. It goes into this idea that communication is a in war is a combat multiplier. That communication war, and I'm specifically talking here about communication with your spouse. So I'll I'll give you a I'll give you a line, a quote from the Army Field Manual. It says, Communication is an activity that allows commanders, subordinates, and unified action partners to create shared understanding that supports action. How about that? That this is okay, so I said it's with your spouse, but it's actually it allows commanders. Okay, how about that? You and your spouse. It allows subordinates, that's you and your kids. Then it allows unified action partners. Heart, you are a unified action partner in my life, right? And it allows us to create a shared understanding so we get all on the same page. Why? To support action, because then we're ready. So let's get everybody on the same page so that over communication, talking with your kids, talking with your spouse, so that so that it will support the action that you want to create, the vision that you're pursuing in your family, all by beginning with a and I believe an abundance and probably an overabundance of communication.

33:54Well, it makes me think about you know, you come in and and it is wartime and you're going to battle, and the first thing that's done is communication is set up. Right? They they get their comms right and ready. Because without that, if there is if I can't communicate back to base, if they can't communicate to us, we can't go to battle. Right. So it it actually I love where you put it in your order because it's it's kind of building and it's like, oh yeah, communication, which is the foundation for everything. Like when we talk about alignment in coaching, there's a couple things we talk about in the family. It's communication and trust.

34:30Yeah.

34:31And I think it's actually a great practice to kind of rate yourself and then rate who you're communicating with. Like, how does your spouse receive your communication right now? One to 10. How do you receive their communication? Right? How are my kids receiving it? Man, trust me, my 15-year-old receives my communication differently than she did when she was eight. And but if I'm if I'm using the same tactics, no wonder there's going to be frustration.

34:57Wow.

34:58She is so much more mature, she is very intelligent, she's a great communicator in her own right. Like, and and I need to have enough grace for her and I guess myself to level up and adjust that. But how I talk to Brave, our seven-year-old is very different. But I still want to be great at it for what he needs, right? So we establish the comms, and then as a family, we can move forward and go to war.

35:21How tell me about your you have one thing I really like that you said there, so as a preface, the tailoring your communication to the people around you, man, it's a lot, it's very easy. I'll just speak as a dad. It's very easy to be like, well, I said it. I mean it's almost like the domineering guy. Well, I said it, so it's it's on them. Well, hold on, you got to know who you're talking to because again, what's the goal? The goal is not to have said you said something. The goal is going back to the field manual, it's to support action. So are you actually pragmatic? Are you actually action-oriented? Like, is that is that the actual goal for you, or do you just want to be right? Or do you just want to be in control?

36:00Well, think about uh I think about the difference, and I've learned a lot. I did not communicate or coach my oldest kid well. Right. A lot of the the communicate we're in wartime and there's a lot going on, and we'd leave a basketball game and I'd be frustrated with something that she did, and I'd just let it rip. Well, come to find out, that's not how she receives it. Right? She she would love for me to talk about just go get ice cream no matter what, and then the next day have a great conversation about basketball strategy. My second daughter, the game's not even over, and she's yelling from the sideline, hey dad, what can I do better? Hey, did you see? I mean, like, wants to diagnose it and break it down. And so I use that as an example. Like each kid in each season, the the different personalities, the different temperaments, the different emotions. Man, let's just and so I like this idea. Like, if we're in wartime, let's be experts on what each member needs. And I like what you said, even you know, obviously with spouses, obviously with kids, and then those unified action partners, man. You're in wartime. Joey, what do you need from me right now? You're sliding into peacetime. I'm in the middle, so it's good for us to have an understanding of where each are at, and then we can bring different attributes based on the location.

37:16So good. Do you guys have do you guys have in your home a structure for communication? Do you have Kristen and I do a we can talk about this some we we do a weekly meeting on Sundays. We're talking meals for the week. What are we doing for meals this week? Hey, we're talking about what what kids' events do we have? We have we have paper calendars for the next six months of big things. So as I'm planning out traveling for speaking or whatever it is, I can quickly reference those that everybody sees. So we have that Sunday one is great. Our kids have been working this summer. Our kids are getting um, they're getting paychecks in. So every Sunday, Kristen sits down with them and we're gonna go through hey, Harrison, you made $300. Here's what's your give, save, spend? We're gonna get it all, we're gonna get all that stuff figured out. We're gonna we're gonna communicate all those, and it has become a rhythm in our home to have that designated communication time. What is that what does that look like for you guys?

38:09We're a little bit similar. Sunday night is our big night for it. Obviously, it's got to kind of take place every day, but we uh we're pretty good about celebrating the wins from the week on that Sunday night meeting. Uh, we did a deal for a whole year where we would vote on the biggest win and then put it in a jar. And then at the end of the year, we had 52 wins that we all went back and celebrated, which was awesome. Um, it got pretty heated on which one went in because obviously everybody's like, No, I walked the dog and it was awesome, right? You know, whatever. So um that's what that's fun. But in that that family meeting is our reset every week. And I love talking about the wins, and then kind of to your point, we talk about what everybody has coming up. Yeah, and I do think one really cool communication piece is everybody gets to say what they're excited about and then what we're in agreement for with them. Man, I have a big science test on Thursday. Love your agreement. Man, I'm trying out for this team. Man, I my friend's going through this. I mean, whatever it might be. And then after that kind of full team meeting, Molly and I do it sounds like what you and Kristen do, where we we actually look at the calendar. Yeah. And I can't tell you how many missed minds that's created because it's not some complete misunderstanding on who's taking who to what event, or man, I'm actually out of town all day Thursday and I'll be back that night. Or I mean, it is amazing what that has saved us from. Um, the only thing I'll say too is Molly and I share a color-coded calendar, and it's got all it's actually my entire business calendar is in there and our family calendar. And then now that kids are pretty active, they've got their color. Yeah. And it's a lot on one sheet, but like Molly knows that we're doing a podcast right now. It's on the calendar. She she knows when my next appointment is. I know when all the kids' practices are. So we're never like guessing or wondering. It basically has created like a communication dashboard so that we can be effective in wartime.

40:08I gotta guess that that you've gotten better at that over time because I'm I'm imagining someone here listening right now thinking, like, you know, wind jar for 52 weeks, color-coded, like that seems like a lot. Is it safe to say, is this as a softball question ever, is it safe to say that it's gotten better over time?

40:28Joey, I am the least naturally organized person that that most people would know, and have had to find that discipline to be effective. I love flying by the seat of my pants. It is fun talking people in hey, I forgot our tickets, but I can get us on the sideline. That that's like an adventure for me. So it's opposite, but man, to run multiple businesses and to keep that dialed in. And actually, and honestly, like I'd say for any leader listening, for you to be your best and actually bring what's needed, you have to be organized and you have to be prepared.

41:03Yeah.

41:03And so if that needs to be developed and that needs to be something that your family practices as well, man, you as a leader, that's what I had to do. I had to decide to develop that and and get it to a point where other people could follow it as well, so it could behoove the rest of the family.

41:21It it's interesting to me that here we are, two guys in similar stages of life, and we've spent the most time on all of this beyond guardrails and making not making catastrophic mistakes. It's actually it's interesting to me that we're spending the most time on communication. And I think it's just this subconscious recognition of how vital it is. And you say all the time, one of my favorite quotes that you say is that anxiety needs a plan. I love it. I think about that every week. Anxiety needs a plan. That is Chris Christopher Madison Hart Jr. original right there. And here's what you do when you're communicating, when you're building a plan, you're not only quelling anxiety, but you're preempting anxiety as well. That you've just brought calm into your home simply by communicating and making a plan.

42:08Well, so think about this. You know, that there's the book, The Anxious Generation, or somebody could say, Man, one of my kids has anxiety. I would go as far as to say, your kid needs a plan. Your your family needs a plan. I mean, let's let's just completely hit it right in the mouth. That's what's needed. Your your kid's anxious because there's a lack of preparation or a lack of understanding. Man, you're anxious about that test. Man, here's the three designated times we're gonna study for that test. Here's how you could nail that presentation. Man, you've got some anxiety about where your marriage is at right now. You don't have a plan for your marriage. Right? If you're anxious about your fitness, you don't have a plan for your fitness. So I love that you brought that up. But think about it through the lens of especially in wartime, we have to have a plan for this. Yes. Or we're walking around anxious, wondering what day we're gonna get shot because we're not ready. What day is gonna be the knockout blow because I'm not prepared for it. So, what it does, what a plan does is takes us from like an unknowing defensive stance to actually being prepared, advancing, and going on the offensive in this dangerous season of our life.

43:16Man, that's fantastic. So we I want to give the sixth thing, the things that I just want you to know when you're in wartime. First one, recognize you're in wartime. Second, you can't do peacetime things in wartime. Third, don't make a catastrophic mistake in the fog of war. Fourth, flexibility is the plan. Fifth, communication in war is a combat multiplier. And the best news is sixth. And it's so good, and I don't want you to breeze over it. The best news is this war will end. You might feel right now that it's never gonna end. You might I mean I'm I'm getting emotional thinking about this, Chris, because I'm I imagine the person listening who just feels like it's over. Man, my marriage is over. Oh, my kids are too far gone. Am I ever gonna get that back? You just have to know something. Please hear it like war is gonna end. This wartime will end. You will not always be living at your wit's end. You will not always feel desperate. You will not always be in this spot where you just feel like you've given everything you you can give and it's not enough. There's Psalm 27, 13 is one of my favorite verses in the Bible. It says, I would have lost heart if I would have not believed that I would see the goodness of God in the land of the living. You have to know the goodness of God is not only in what you're in, but it's on the other side of it too. So don't, don't, don't lose heart because war is going to come to an end, and you're hearing it from somebody who has again, I've talked in this podcast, like I've, you know, Kristen and I have gone through some tough times. Kristen has asked me to clarify, like, we please tell them our marriage is pretty good. Like, we let people know that. She's really happy. She's awesome. Yeah, we're good. But I will tell you, on someone who is at the tail end of wartime, going into peacetime, I'm just telling you, like, you just have to know that wartime will end. It's not gonna last forever. And it goes back to that saying, the phrase to make the sad man happy and the happy man sad. This too shall pass. You're gonna get through it. War will not end. And the people who lose heart are the ones that think that wartime will last forever.

45:20Okay, so recognizing that the war will end, I love that, Joey. I mean, we're gonna see the goodness of God in the land of the living. You're also, I'm thinking about Jesus just saying, Man, for the joy set before me, I endured. You know what I'm saying? Like, and some sometimes it feels like wartime is our cross to bear. And and and again, I think our heart here is to reiterate, you might be feeling like that, and that's okay. You're not alone, it's normal, and the future's bright. Okay, so here's how we're gonna wrap up this episode because for the first time ever, we're actually gonna have an immediate part two, which will be next week. Okay, so to live brave and big this week, our challenge to you is to listen to this with your spouse.

46:08Yeah.

46:09Get together, get unified, give them the reassurance that it's okay, that it feels like you're in wartime because you are, but also let's get equipped. This list of six things is great and apply it how it fits your team, your family. Might be adding the Sunday nights, this communication stuff, we're not caught in the fog, all of that. But listen to this. And then here's action item number two is tune in next week. We're gonna pick up right where we left off. We're actually gonna give some advice to people coming into wartime, we're giving some advice to people that are coming out of it, but then we're gonna get real clear on continued action items to live and walk through. We got your back. Live big, be brave in who you are. Let's go in.

46:58Okay, real quick, triple S for us. Subscribe, share, star. Give us five stars wherever you listen to podcasts. Thank you so much for joining us this week on Brave and Big. Brave and Big is produced by Stonest Podcast and the brilliant Miles All Britton. We will see you next week.